Prices of apartments in Krakow are going down faster in 2010

Polsky..........you are the same person who has been "spamming" Polish Forums for the past week. You make unsubstantiated comments in order to provoke a response. Get a life.

- Posted by Avalon from Poland on Nov 6th, 2009

Polsky..........you are the same person who has been "spamming" Polish Forums for the past week. You make unsubstantiated comments in order to provoke a response. Get a life.

- Posted by Avalon from Poland on Nov 6th, 2009

I posted just one message - this message. With clear arguments and study of the real estate markets. And almost every real estate expert agress with this. Few of the many arguments: I think everybody knows that for buying real estate you need to have DEMAND. RIght now there is just OVERSUPPLY from the 3-4 million poles working aborad, who never plan to return. Demand comes from people who usually pay with their wages, the credit from the bank. For an average wage of 2000 zlotych/month, bank allows you maximum 800 zl/month of payment for your mortgage. 800 zl/month for a credit of 20 years, equals 800 x 12 = 9600 zl / year equals maximum 200 000 zl (rounded in plus) for an apartment in Krakow. So that is the correct market price for a 2-3 rooms apartment (60-100 sq.m.) in Krakow: 200 000 zl Right now there are thousands of apartments for sale at absurd prices, and nobody is buying... (PS it seems that the only spammer is Avalon here)

- Posted by polsky from Poland on Nov 6th, 2009

Guys don't forget also that 4-6 millions poles went to work abroad, and probably will never return to poland, meaning there is an actual excess of 2-3 million houses/apartments that are for sale... ;) Cars are a different thing than apartments. If you buy an apartment, 4-6 people use it and that's it, for the rest of your life mostly. If you buy a car, you use it just 1 person usually, and you buy then a new car after 3-5 years, and then another new car and so on. I talked with many real estate agents and I am sure that the polish real estate bubble will not explode in the very near future and prices will drop down dramatically

- Posted by polsky from Poland on Nov 16th, 2009

" All in all, the polish real estate bubble will burst very soon, and prices will come back crashing down What do you think?" From where I sit that ship has already sailed from krakow at least. The bubble you refer to has been loosing pressure for at least two years, if it continues to deflate or mount a slight recovery is anyone's guess. An apartment close to downtown krakow right now runs about 8000z sqm so 80sqm would be 640,000z, your guesstimate of 200,000z is way off the mark even for wishful thinking. Your number of poles working abroad took a big jump in only 10 days from 3-4 mil to 4-6 mil and your last post contradicts your first. I'm not sure what you are driving at but speaking of driving I still have the car I bought 10yrs ago, one mould does not fit all.

- Posted by ossmac from Poland on Nov 20th, 2009

Average salary in France is 2 700 euros / month, and in Poland 450 euros / month, somehow still, there is HIGHER demand in Poland than in France ? Because prices in Krakow at real estate easily surpass 2 000 euros / sq.m. even if noone can afford to buy at such bubble inflated prices. Where is this "demand" ? The only ones completely delusioning themselves are only the sellers. Some "demand" that nobody sees, which makes it normal for the real estate prices in Poland to be higher than in France, even if the average salary (and therefore demand) is suited to a average price of 450 eur / sq.m. maximum.

- Posted by polsky from Poland on Nov 29th, 2009

Only the desperate developers and desperate real estate agents will say different. Reality is simple: APARTMENTS SUPPLY: - 70 000 new apartments built and unsold - 1 - 3 000 000 old apartments deserted, owners working abroad and not planning to return ever to Poland see www.polishculture.co.uk/index.php?Itemid=26&id=314&option=com_content&tas k=view APARTMENTS DEMAND: - close to none at these huge bubble inflated prices. All polish people have homes, and the polish population is decreasing, so more and more apartents come to be tried to be sold on the market

- Posted by polsky from Poland on Dec 4th, 2009

1-3,000,000 apartments deserted? Are you insane?

- Posted by spoony from Poland on Dec 4th, 2009

yes of course you will not read about this in the newspapers everyday. just use your own mind. Banks live only by giving overinflated loans in Poland, so they always HAVE TO say bshyt about prices forever rising, so naive people can become salves to the banks... The funny thing is that people think they own the apartment for which they pay 650 000 pln over 30 years time, while THE BANK OWNS THE APARTMENT (valued at 200 000 PLN) ALL THE TIME, and IF YOU PAY JUST 600 000 PLN and you dont have last 50 000 PLN then YOU LOSE EVERYTHING BOTH the apartment which was never yours, and both the 600 000 PLN you paid so far like an idiot have millions-worth of FAKE ADVERTISING everywhere - on TV, on posters everywhere... claiming they are your friends and they "HELP YOU" with everything... but they take from you 650 000 PLN after they lend you 200 000 PLN, and in the meantime, your property is down to just 80 000 PLN or less Excellent deal, to pay 650 000 PLN for an apartment that will be 80 000 PLN or less ! ;) Excellent deal made possible only with the "help" of these lovely banks ;)

- Posted by polsky from Poland on Dec 10th, 2009

You're losing the plot Polsky, see a doctor. Firstly your figures always seem to be wildly exagerated, you make some good points but let yourself down by these fabrications. Secondly, in many cases how else is a person supposed to be able to afford to buy their own home? Should they save up for 30 years then pay cash, in the meantime live with parents? or should they take out a mortgage and have 30 years living comfortably whilst they pay the loan off. You are a dinosaur living in pre-historic times, Poland has moved on. I hope the country doesn't follow as far in the footsteps of America and the UK, with regards to debt, but it isn't such a bad thing if managed correctly.

- Posted by skibum from Poland on Dec 10th, 2009

Always the biggest truths are ognored and they are hurting and hard for majority f people, so they close their eyes and hope it will not happen to them. Greed is a major factor. Everyone should be aware that the price in properties, especially apartments and land, in Poland, will collapse in 2010 and 2011 with more than 50%. The factors are described above thouroughly, and there are more. And , most of the real estate experts say the same, although they say the fall will be only minus 20% to minus 40%...

- Posted by polsky from Poland on Dec 13th, 2009

Polsky, First of all, an interesting topic itself you started. family of me in Warsaw just bought a flat after their marriage and they aren´t happy about developments in real estate. I guess You have to represent your information in a more logical way (causes and results/effects) now you present facts based on nothing as 'absolute' and also i miss your 'sources'. Which real estate experts predict the numbers you mention? i read in the Warsaw voice in october that real estate market is on the way back, upwards, and certainly not collapsing. "The end of the crisis?" special published on 28th october 2009. Or what about this: (http://www.polishmarket.com.pl/document/:21828?p=%2FMONITOR+GOSPODARCZY%2F) Polish housing prices on the up 2009-12-03The latest transactions show that the slump in Polish real estate prices is bottoming out. In some cities prices of flats are already climbing, data released by the Polish Banks Association (ZBP) show. ‘Price stabilisation is a fact in Poland. Polsky, i would be happy to find your sources of information, not your personal estimations. But if they are true, 2011 is the year to invest again in real estate. best regards, F.

- Posted by Florianska from Poland on Dec 13th, 2009

with all the respect to the previous poster, the guy who owns an apartment on Florianska and therefore it is in his best interest for the prices to stay at this huge high bubble inflated level and not to collapse: it is EASY: BANKS and REAL ESTATE AGENTS who are producing those worthless papers called "market reports" are CONDEMNED by their job to say that PRICES will rise, because it's the only way clients will come their way. Look historically and you will see, that BANKS and REAL ESTATE AGENTS, 99.5% of the time say: "blablablablabla prices will rise blablabla"

- Posted by polsky from Poland on Dec 20th, 2009

more of Pure facts: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krakow#Historical_demographics_of_Krak.C3.B3w The population of Krakow is decreasing each year, since 1998. Therefore the demand for apartments are smaller and smaller, as population is steadily decreasing year by year. this is from official statistics, clear fact, population of Krakow is decreasing -1.3% each year

- Posted by polsky from Poland on Dec 24th, 2009

Try reading some of the other figures on that page. And furthermore undestand what they say. -1.3 per 1000 based on 756,000 is minimal. And looking at the population figure this means (according to your previous post) there are upto 4 vacant apartments in Krakow for every man woman and child of the population.

- Posted by skibum from Poland on Dec 25th, 2009

The figures I give are accurate and are taken from WIKIPEDIA. We examplified all costs into a new building, and total cost NEVER surpassed 1000 PLN/sq.m. built. But of course any builder will lie to you for money everyday... Construction materials - for example iron and steel last year have been going 4 times DOWN in price because of crisis.

- Posted by polsky from Poland on Jan 6th, 2010

also guys your input and opinions are appreciated: will the prices per sq.m. in real estate go as down as 3000 PLN/sq.m. or only till 4000 PLN/sq.m. in the historical centre, and 1000 PLN/sq.m. in the outskirts. I know it sounds crazy, but this is very probable

- Posted by polsky from Poland on Jan 15th, 2010

Last statistics show that 200 people have frozen to death in their homes. The dead also includes a 13-year old boy found on Saturday, who died on his way home. The extreme weather conditions caused power outages due to network failures, with entire provinces deprived of electricity in southern Poland. The military has for several days now been assisting the efforts to remove ice from electricity lines. About 8,000 households remain without power in the country. Meanwhile, last night the temperature has hit a new low, with -30˚C

- Posted by polsky from Poland on Jan 25th, 2010

After so many poles died because of freezing in their own home, there are less owners, and again more apartments on the market... again...

- Posted by polsky from Poland on Feb 3rd, 2010

Polsky You are still spouting the same rubbish that you did on Polish Forums. You are definately, cerifiable. The statements you make are not backed up as you give , no reliable source of your information. A perfect example of the is your mention of a 13 year old boy who froze to death in the recent cold spell. You neglect to metion that he had been drinking with his older cousins and collapsed on his way home. You seem to have some secret agenda about property and by giving the false information, you seem to think it will drive property prices down. All your claims are exaggerated as pointed out by "skibum" and others. People that read these forums, do so in the hope of finding useful information. How are any of you posts classed as useful, when, they are clearly the rantings of a madman.

- Posted by Avalon from Poland on Feb 4th, 2010

Polsky You are still spouting the same rubbish that you did on Polish Forums. You are definately, cerifiable. The statements you make are not backed up as you give , no reliable source of your information. A perfect example of the is your mention of a 13 year old boy who froze to death in the recent cold spell. You neglect to metion that he had been drinking with his older cousins and collapsed on his way home. You seem to have some secret agenda about property and by giving the false information, you seem to think it will drive property prices down. All your claims are exaggerated as pointed out by "skibum" and others. People that read these forums, do so in the hope of finding useful information. How are any of you posts classed as useful, when, they are clearly the rantings of a madman.

- Posted by Avalon from Poland on Feb 4th, 2010

Let's see: we have about 600 000 poles selling their properties... and maybe about 200 buying (the ones that are totally airheads). Prices expected to fall about 30% - 60%. Do your own maths ;)

- Posted by polsky from Poland on Feb 20th, 2010

I think it is obvious that prices to purchase property in Poland will go down - though probably not by more than 10-15 percent from present levels, depending on location of course. Property investment is all about the long term, and for sure Poland has long-term growth potential. However, I predict that prices for RENTAL of property will rise faster than any recovery in sales prices (when that recovery finally happens) - this is because rental prices are currently low compared with sales values for the same properties.

- Posted by Jabber from Poland on Feb 20th, 2010

"I think it is obvious that prices to purchase property in Poland will go down - though probably not by more than 10-15 percent from present levels, depending on location". I talked with many people lately and they all think that the prices have to go down much further than just 15%. After all, average salary per economy is about 1700 PLN/month, which is usually in all western countries, the amount of the CORRECT price per sq.m. So about 1700 PLN/sq.m. will be te price at the end of 2011-2012

- Posted by polsky from Poland on Mar 2nd, 2010

I would agree with you that the real estate agents in any country will spew their bile in order to get the uninformed to ride the train of debt. But i will disagree with you about polish real estate markets in Warszawa and Krakow dropping to 1,000 PLN per sqm. Firstly the markrt is currently fragmenting as of 2008. Secondly salaries are decreasing not increasing in Poland there has been a 30% reduction on salaries being offered in 2010 over 2008/2009 ask any headhunter. Thirdly prim location is always prime property and will always find a buyer at the right price. The secondary market outside the Planta and further out towards suburbia is the battlefield of lower prices and the future will dictate the outcome.

- Posted by warszawski from Poland on Mar 7th, 2010

I think it is obvious that prices to purchase property in Poland will go down - though probably not by more than 10-15 percent from present levels, depending on location of course. Property investment is all about the long term, and for sure Poland has long-term growth potential. However, I predict that prices for RENTAL of property will rise faster than any recovery in sales prices (when that recovery finally happens) - this is because rental prices are currently low compared with sales values for the same properties. There was once a rule of savy purchase in Poland buy anything that would cover cost after 10-11 years of generated rental income. When PL entered in EU is 2004 it became a buying frenzy especially after the introduction of swiss franc mortgages. The peak of the buying frenzy was 2006/2007. In my opinion rents will remain low because there are so many buy to lets out there and the owners are desperate. They cannot sell and must rent even if they have to top up the mortgage payments themselves, the Polish people are very industrious and they will do anything not to loose money. They are NOT like the Brits and the Irish that would consider retrenching in order to fight another day.

- Posted by warszawski from Poland on Mar 7th, 2010

Let's see: we have about 600 000 poles selling their properties... and maybe about 200 buying (the ones that are totally airheads). Prices expected to fall about 30% - 60%. Do your own maths ;) ............................................. Where do you get your figures of 600,000 poles selling their property. If you are taking the portals of domiporta.pl or trader.pl as a basis for the number of people selling please remember any property that is worth selling will be offered by at least 5-10 agents. There is a lot of property on the market from poles. But the property that will start to hit the market in 2010,2011,2012 will be all the units that were bought prior to Dec 2005 when the law changed re capital gains tax in Poland. Property purchased before Dec 2005 avails of a 0% capital gains tax after being held for more than five years. So when the Funds and foreign investors start to sell that will spur a downward momentum not the local sellers. Basis if you bought at 3000 PLN after discounts and the price is now quoted at 10-12000 PLN per sqm you will be happy with 6-7000 PLN per sqm. There is a nice polish saying amongst the ones in the know. " He asked for 12 because he really 10 but I know he will accept 6 so I will offer him 4" that is the mentality of our Polish brothers.

- Posted by warszawski from Poland on Mar 7th, 2010

You may want to look at this: http://www.fdimagazine.com/cp/26/European-Cities-and-Regions-of-the-Future-2010-11.pdf

- Posted by warszawski from Poland on Mar 7th, 2010

A mate of mine who is a journalist for a local newspaper in the lovely land of saints and scholars told me that sponsors for the paper would pull out if they printed the facts about the property bubble bursting. So they all went along with the scam and only printed lies to maintain the illusion. Now that it is burst and splattered all over the land they are all printing story's about how fcuked up everything is and how nobody saw it coming. The bubble in Poland is a lot worse than anything

- Posted by polsky from Poland on May 4th, 2010

A mate of mine who is a journalist for a local newspaper in the lovely land of saints and scholars told me that sponsors for the paper would pull out if they printed the facts about the property bubble bursting. So they all went along with the scam and only printed lies to maintain the illusion. Now that it is burst and splattered all over the land they are all printing story's about how fcuked up everything is and how nobody saw it coming. The bubble in Poland is a lot worse than anything posted by polsky on May.04.2010 Posted on Polish forums 30-4-2010 milky A mate of mine who is a journalist for a local newspaper in the lovely land of saints and scholars told me that sponsors for the paper would pull out if they printed the facts about the property bubble bursting. So they all went along with the scam and only printed lies to maintain the illusion. Now that it is burst and splattered all over the land they are all printing story's about how fcuked up everything is and how nobody saw it coming. The bubble in Poland is a lot worse than anything here but there are some who wouldn't notice a bubble even if their dumb ass was submerged in a bubble-bath. This peron is a spammer who posts rubbish under different names. He is also "Warsawski" and has a host of other alias's. This person is a compulsive liar.

- Posted by Avalon from Poland on May 5th, 2010

Mr Mark Biernat (polsky and other usernames you use) please stop spamming these forums like you spam every other forum regarding Krakow and Poland. Seek medical help.

- Posted by lionking from Poland on May 5th, 2010